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Thread: Milton Township Democrats don't do the Pledge of Allegiance

  1. #1
    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Milton Township Democrats don't do the Pledge of Allegiance

    I had occasion last night to be at their monthly meeting.

    My state rep, who rarely appears anywhere outside her little comfort zone in Villa Park, was speaking, so I figure it's my only shot to see her. Isn't that what they harp on Peter Roskam about, not being accessible?

    Anyway, I'm familiar with how public meetings, or private group meetings, generally begin. The Milton Republicans start with the Pledge. So does District 41 and any other government gathering.

    Not the Milton Township Democrats. There is a flag in the room. But, to start the meeting, Walt Zlotov, began with a quote from Oliver Wendall Holmes,

    "I like to pay taxes, with them I buy civilization".

    No honoring of the flag. Nothing. WOW.

    I was embarrassed. For them.

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    Forum Hall of Famer DTM's Avatar
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    Please post Walt's address so I can forward my tax bills, thanks!

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    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Walt has other issues. He has a member that was suppose to be asking Conroy a question but went on a 5-7 min rant from his resist everything perspective. After the rant, Walt made a short comment to the man. The guy yelled something to Walt about his non appreciation of Walt's comment. I think everybody was scared of this guy. Maybe a member can illuminate on who this guy is.

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    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Now that it's several weeks later, and I've relayed this experience to many others, I think the following should be dwelled on-----

    Not only did the Milton Dems, led by Walt Zlotow, ignore and disrespect the American Flag and Pledge of Allegiance, but all candidates there that night, including Deborah Conroy and GE's own Terra Costa Howard, did the same thru their silence. Shame on them and I think it speaks volumes about those involved. I've got to assume that everyone at that meeting has attended numerous meetings of other groups, going back to grammar school, where the flag and pledge began things. And, if they get their horrible excuse for a candidate for governor across the line, the taxes that get increased thru the progressive tax they are gung-ho for will be YOUR dollars burning away. Close your eyes and think about that. What percent will they increase your income tax to, 10%? 11%? Maybe 13%? Scary stuff.

  5. #5
    Forum Hall of Famer Cliché's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ackerman View Post
    And, if they get their horrible excuse for a candidate for governor across the line...
    As Marty McFly would say, this is an oldie, BUT, a goodie..."Quick comparison, one man is a billionaire, politician, venture capitalist, entrepreneur, philanthropist who has given away hundreds of millions...and the other has spent 1,883 posts in Glen Ellyn, berating, amongst others, the thrice plus billionaire. Methinks the wrong person might... well, you know

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    Forum All Star Glenly Ellynby's Avatar
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    Here’s an interesting history of the Pledge if Allegiance, and how the prose has changed since it was written at the end of the 19th Century. It was written by a socialist who feared immigration, and was part of a campaign to “Americanize” public school students, along with getting American flags in every classroom.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...vow-180956332/

    I have long roots in this Country including multiple direct ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, the Union side of the Civil War, and every major war that followed. Some gave their lives. I often fly an American flag on my own house, always on Memorial Day and Veterans Day. So you can try to attack me for not loving the pledge as much as you, but I am unashamedly American and have no other home or allegiance to any other country.

    But what is even “less American” than not reciting the pledge before a meeting? Berating and attempting to shame those who choose not to. Perhaps, Ackerman, you would be more comfortable living under an authoritarian regime that mandates patriotic displays under threat of punishment.
    Last edited by Glenly Ellynby; 08-12-2018 at 10:25 AM.

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    Forum Hall of Famer Cliché's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenly Ellynby View Post
    But what is even “less American”...
    Last year, travelled to an out of town professional sporting event. Don't remember exactly when, but at some point during the event, it was "time" for “God Bless America," where they asked everyone to remove their caps, and some proceeded to place their hands over their hearts. I did neither and caught grief from the surrounding fans for it.

    The national anthem of course has long been a pregame staple at sporting events, but it wasn't until MLB instructed teams to play “God Bless America” after 9-11 that it became a regular, additional musical patriotic ritual. I've called it Patriotic Creep, similar to the American flag lapel pins. First some people wore them, politicians, then those that didn't had their patriotism questioned and then they became all but required, then the "pins" grew larger and larger...Patriotic "pieces of flair."

    Tired and wary of "these" patriotism requirements... political correctness, imposed on a captive audience through enforced cultural conformity... people express their patriotism in different ways, that is what freedom is. And yes, I will never place my hand over my heart or take my cap off for “God Bless America."

    Postscript: Nice to see you back for a post ly by, if only for a brief moment.

  8. #8
    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenly Ellynby View Post
    Here’s an interesting history of the Pledge if Allegiance, and how the prose has changed since it was written at the end of the 19th Century. It was written by a socialist who feared immigration, and was part of a campaign to “Americanize” public school students, along with getting American flags in every classroom.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...vow-180956332/

    I have long roots in this Country including multiple direct ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War, the Union side of the Civil War, and every major war that followed. Some gave their lives. I often fly an American flag on my own house, always on Memorial Day and Veterans Day. So you can try to attack me for not loving the pledge as much as you, but I am unashamedly American and have no other home or allegiance to any other country.

    But what is even “less American” than not reciting the pledge before a meeting? Berating and attempting to shame those who choose not to. Perhaps, Ackerman, you would be more comfortable living under an authoritarian regime that mandates patriotic displays under threat of punishment.
    One person chose not to, Zlatow. You ever read his ramblings?

    The rest sat like lemmings and didn't give it two thoughts. Maybe you were one of them.

    Congrats on the family history.

    They, the Milton Township D's, have the right in this country to stand and salute or in this case just ignore. I have the right to question this. You have the right to make a silly suggestion, as you did. You remind me of these silly signs that identify leftist residents. You know the ones that say 'We're not afraid' or 'Love everyone', etc. What they really mean is they tolerate everyone EXCEPT ones they don't agree with, meaning Republicans, conservatives, Trump followers.

    Me, I try to engage conversation with virtually anyone, including those that don't agree with me. I find it amusing that you go to, as I've seen others do, that I should move elsewhere. If you consider yourself tolerate, I suggest you find a mirror.

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    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliché View Post
    Last year, travelled to an out of town professional sporting event. Don't remember exactly when, but at some point during the event, it was "time" for “God Bless America," where they asked everyone to remove their caps, and some proceeded to place their hands over their hearts. I did neither and caught grief from the surrounding fans for it.

    The national anthem of course has long been a pregame staple at sporting events, but it wasn't until MLB instructed teams to play “God Bless America” after 9-11 that it became a regular, additional musical patriotic ritual. I've called it Patriotic Creep, similar to the American flag lapel pins. First some people wore them, politicians, then those that didn't had their patriotism questioned and then they became all but required, then the "pins" grew larger and larger...Patriotic "pieces of flair."

    Tired and wary of "these" patriotism requirements... political correctness, imposed on a captive audience through enforced cultural conformity... people express their patriotism in different ways, that is what freedom is. And yes, I will never place my hand over my heart or take my cap off for “God Bless America."

    Postscript: Nice to see you back for a post ly by, if only for a brief moment.
    I could guess that you weren't born here and that would fuel your opinions, but you don't have the guts to come out of the shadows to self identify. Aren't you lucky that you don't live in one of those countries that your friend Ellynby would send me to.

    The gutlessness of making your comments under the anonymity that you cling to is just that, gutless. And, no, I won't make the suggestion that Ellynby did about living elsewhere.

    And, you are wrong, "God Bless America" has been played at events years before 9-11. Think Kate Smith.

  10. #10
    Forum Hall of Famer Cliché's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ackerman View Post
    I could guess that you weren't born here and that would fuel your opinions, but you don't have the guts to come out of the shadows to self identify. Aren't you lucky that you don't live in one of those countries that your friend Ellynby would send me to.

    The gutlessness of making your comments under the anonymity that you cling to is just that, gutless. And, no, I won't make the suggestion that Ellynby did about living elsewhere.

    And, you are wrong, "God Bless America" has been played at events years before 9-11. Think Kate Smith.
    Ackerman, seriously, what is your problem? What relevance does disclosing my identity have to do with my opinions? Take issue with my opinions, fine, stop the personal attacks already.

    Never said “God Bless America” had never been played before 9-11, what I said is that after 9-11 it became a "regular, additional musical patriotic ritual."

    Hope you find peace.

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    Forum All Star Perplexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ackerman View Post
    You remind me of these silly signs that identify leftist residents. You know the ones that say 'We're not afraid' or 'Love everyone', etc. What they really mean is they tolerate everyone EXCEPT ones they don't agree with, meaning Republicans, conservatives, Trump.
    Seems you tolerate anyone who’s not a “leftist”. Both extremes are different sides of the same coin, you all make me laugh.

    I have one of those signs, while I’m not sure what your definition of “leftist” is, I am sure I am not one. I have a We Are Not Afraid sign because I believe it is important we welcome refugees in our country. Heck, the Pilgrims were refugees... I find it interesting and heart warming that every time I take any of my friends that are anti-Immigration/refugee, to meet our local refugee group, they change their hearts & minds.

    Oh, and if the person who steals all those signs is reading this, I have two things to say...

    1. I assume you don’t see the irony in your stealing “We Are Not Afraid Signs”

    2. Every time you steal a sign, the owner donates to World Relief to get another sign. So... Thank you for supporting our local refugees!!





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliché View Post
    Ackerman, seriously, what is your problem? What relevance does disclosing my identity have to do with my opinions? Take issue with my opinions, fine, stop the personal attacks already.

    Never said “God Bless America” had never been played before 9-11, what I said is that after 9-11 it became a "regular, additional musical patriotic ritual."

    Hope you find peace.
    I can't possibly attack an avatar. How can one attack an avatar?

    Now, if you were a person, I'd say if you got the whatever to disrespect the flag and disrespect the country by sitting and not removing your cap during patriotic songs, then don't waaaaahhhh when you are called out. But that would be if you actually existed.

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    Forum All Star ackerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perplexed View Post
    Seems you tolerate anyone who’s not a “leftist”. Both extremes are different sides of the same coin, you all make me laugh.

    I have one of those signs, while I’m not sure what your definition of “leftist” is, I am sure I am not one. I have a We Are Not Afraid sign because I believe it is important we welcome refugees in our country. Heck, the Pilgrims were refugees... I find it interesting and heart warming that every time I take any of my friends that are anti-Immigration/refugee, to meet our local refugee group, they change their hearts & minds.

    Oh, and if the person who steals all those signs is reading this, I have two things to say...

    1. I assume you don’t see the irony in your stealing “We Are Not Afraid Signs”

    2. Every time you steal a sign, the owner donates to World Relief to get another sign. So... Thank you for supporting our local refugees!!





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    First, I tolerate a lot of leftists and people just ignorant of anything political. Some can't handle, for years now, trying to be on top of anything going on politically in the state or nationally. I know people that just don't vote. If they are comfortable with that, and then don't complain, at least they are consistent.

    As far as laughing, I laugh at anyone that considers themselves above things.

    I'm not anti refugee. I can appreciate your sentiments about your having a sign, good for you. I am against illegal immigration, catch and release, etc.

    I am against the hypocrisy of some that have signs that want to shut down voices that don't agree with them. Kumbayah as long as you agree with me.

    The whole point of this thread was to mention that I went to a Milton Township Democratic meeting because it was the only opportunity to personally hear my state rep who hides from her constituents. I never expected the side shows that I saw.

  15. #15
    Forum Hall of Famer Cliché's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ackerman View Post
    I can't possibly attack an avatar. How can one attack an avatar?

    Now, if you were a person, I'd say if you got the whatever to disrespect the flag and disrespect the country by sitting and not removing your cap during patriotic songs, then don't waaaaahhhh when you are called out. But that would be if you actually existed.
    It is always so rewarding to make a point, and then have someone puke verbal diarrhea all over it to help validate it. Thanks for helping illustrate my argument.

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