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Thread: Tombstones & Epitaphs III

  1. #481
    Forum Hall of Famer Cliché's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTM View Post
    Adding girls in the program has been positive in our pack. For a while now siblings would often join our pack hikes anyway. They also would come to our family camps and participate. The parents would often comment, "I wish girl scouts did these hikes and camps the boy scouts do. All we do is silly crafts and sell cookies." Now with the program change, they have signed up their daughters. At our pack meetings/hikes/camps boys and girls attend together, but per BSA rules, the dens groups/meetings are gender specific.
    I can easily see this being a positive for the organization, for the parents and the kids. That said, I see a distinction between boys and girls together for the 5-10 year olds in Cub Scouts, versus the 11-18 in Boy Scouts. The criticism of the Girl Scouting program, their lack of outdoor activites and high adventure are spot on, it is a shame many girls did not have an opportunity like the Boy Scouts. I guess the question for me is why did the Boy Scouts have to fill that void?

  2. #482
    Forum All Star DTM's Avatar
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    Schneiderman's political career

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTM View Post
    Schneiderman's political career
    The New York trail of infamy...Eliot Spitzer, Anthony Weiner and this scum. Love to work Marv Albert in here too.

  4. #484
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    John Karnick, youth sports referee who had cameo in 'Lucas,' dies at 85 (link) — Chicago Tribune

    John Karnick Sr., longtime coach and referee in youth sports in Glen Ellyn, landed a brief speaking part in the 1986 comedy-drama film “Lucas,” which was filmed in Glen Ellyn.

    When “Lucas” was being filmed in the Glen Ellyn area in the summer of 1985, its makers used Glenbard West’s football field for the movie’s climactic final scene. Karnick was tapped to serve as a referee, and his brief moment of Hollywood stardom consisted of a quick spoken line.

    What made Karnick a natural for the speaking line in “Lucas,” friends and family said, was the same trait that made him an effective referee for more than 25 years.

    “He had an authoritative voice, almost like a drill sergeant. You knew he was there when he made the call,” recalled former Glenbard West High School football coach **** Nordmeyer. “And he was a very good official who was confident in his calls, and he had good judgment. I very seldom saw that coaches would dispute or argue his calls, because they were right.”

  5. #485
    Forum All Star middlein87's Avatar
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    The Mormons are leaving the BSA. Their press release doesn't say it, but they are leaving because of BSA's decision to bring in girls to Cub/Boy Scouts.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by middlein87 View Post
    The Mormons are leaving the BSA. Their press release doesn't say it, but they are leaving because of BSA's decision to bring in girls to Cub/Boy Scouts.
    I also think they're a tad upset about the idea of gay people being involved in scouting.

  7. #487
    Forum All Star middlein87's Avatar
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    I think this is a straw/camel's back situation.

    From what I can tell, the word on the street is that the girl decision is a numbers grab by BSA because of membership decline. But they were aware LDS would leave if BSA pulled the trigger. Presumably they assumed they'd get more girls signed up than Mormons leaving.

  8. #488
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    Last edited by DTM; 05-14-2018 at 11:05 AM. Reason: added link

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliché View Post
    I can easily see this being a positive for the organization, for the parents and the kids. That said, I see a distinction between boys and girls together for the 5-10 year olds in Cub Scouts, versus the 11-18 in Boy Scouts. The criticism of the Girl Scouting program, their lack of outdoor activites and high adventure are spot on, it is a shame many girls did not have an opportunity like the Boy Scouts. I guess the question for me is why did the Boy Scouts have to fill that void?
    Maybe the Girl Scouts should handle things like the Goddesses on "Parks and Rec" and this would be going the other way around....

    https://www.nbc.com/parks-and-recrea...py-party/n4576

    Ditto on what Cliché says above.

  10. #490
    Forum All Star middlein87's Avatar
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  11. #491
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    Thanks Middle, interesting. So at the Cub level they are integrated in same Pack but separate dens...while at Scout BSA level as separate troops...resolves many of the issues I had concern with...I like that, just wish they did that 15 years ago.

  12. #492
    It's rare that I end up on the same side of a political debate as the Mormon church and various social conservatives. But as a former scout I am still shaped by the hard-core camping and wilderness survival activities I did in the program. Those activities simply would not work in an integrated scenario (with boys and girls). I feel sorry for the people who have to make these decisions for the scouts, but my opinion is that any boy scout program adjusted enough to make it appropriately co-ed would lack the essentials of the program that made it worthwhile in the first place.

  13. #493
    Forum All Star middlein87's Avatar
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    It looks like, at the traditional Boy Scout level, the genders will be completely separate troops. So you'll never have a brother/sister in the same troop and you won't have boys and girls camping together on a regular troop outing. Where this idea will fall apart is at the Summer Camp, the High Adventure bases (e.g. Philmont, Florida Sea Base, Northern Tier, etc.), and Jamborees.

    I know that summer camps sometimes have female staff, but they don't currently have female scouts. And so I can imagine a time in 2019 where some of the boy scouts from Troop 15 will go for their Swimming Merit Badge class and be mixed in with the girls from Troop 35 that signed up in that time slot to get Swimming Merit Badge as well. So while BSA is sort of saying "hey, no big deal, this isn't really changing the program all that much, the boys and girls will be separate" that isn't entirely true.

    I agree that BSA has a bigger emphasis on outdoor skills, and I empathize with parents and girls who want more of that than maybe they are getting with the Girl Scouts. But I feel like that is a Girl Scout problem, and they should take it up there. The Girls Scouts are absolutely right, too, that they have vastly more experience in programming for girls, and that they're better equipped to serve girls. Boy Scouts is fooling themselves if they think the only thing they'll need to change is to offer their khaki shirts in a ladies cut.

  14. #494
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    Casper and Middle, I can add nothing more as I agree with both of you on everything, fine points. Venturing has always been there for girls, High Adventure encounters did change the boys attitude a bit...

  15. #495
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    I once had my Troop at Blackwell, in Group camping...it was a campout we intergrated into work on the Climbing Merit badge at Lifetime Fitness blocks away, and our high ad boys backpacked to and from. Blackwell has 70 foot pine trees around the perimeter, branches every 2 feet, perfect for climbing...we had 25 boys in those trees, 40-50 feet up rigging pulleys and having fun. A couple Moms from another Troop come by and asked to talk to the Scoutmaster. They went on for 7 minutes about the dangers and irresponsibilities of this behavior...at the end I thanked them and said, "This is why we discourage Moms from joining us on campouts." Same could be said for the weekends we camped at White Pines in Oregon and the boys spent the day in the creek collecting hundreds of crawfish...boiling them up and trying new hot sauces each year. Fun times.

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